Sam Mallikarjunan, CEO of OneScreen.ai (B2B Digitized Podcast)

In this episode of the B2B Digitized Podcast, you’ll be introduced to Sam Mallikarjunan, CEO of OneScreen.ai. 

Sam Mallikarjunan helps build organizations that drive growth. Sam learned marketing while hosting an AM/FM talk radio show about cigars in Florida because cigar companies kept asking him to help with "the internet". He dropped out of college at the University of South Florida (where he's not a Faculty Chair) and taught Advanced Digital Marketing at Harvard University. Prior to OneScreen.ai, Sam was the Head of Growth at Hubspot Labs and Chief Revenue Officer at Flock.com.

On his LinkedIn profile, Sam says, “When I look back on my career, it's not the impossible goals I've personally hit or big competitors I've personally beaten that make me the proudest. My greatest definition of professional success is that if I were hit by an asteroid today, I could go to that great CRM in the sky knowing I'd still had an immeasurable impact on the world because of the incredible impact the people I've helped grow will have on the world.”

Listen to the full episode of the B2B Digitized Podcast to learn more about:

    • Aligning sales and marketing teams
    • Clearing  your mind to do something that is a little different
    • Creating different ads/videos for different mediums
    • Encouraging marketers to use more data
    • Establishing relationships with people outside of your pod
    • Increasing customer retention

Watch the Podcast Interview

 

Watch on YouTube: Sam Mallikarjunan, CEO of OneScreen.ai (B2B Digitized Podcast)

Listen to the Podcast Interview

 

Sam has advice on job hunting:

“Too many people fire themselves from jobs before they even apply to them. It's the hiring manager's job to know if you're a good fit for the role. It's your job to know if the role's a good fit for you. Your job is hard enough. Don't do theirs, too.” 

Sam also talked about HubSpot’s secret to success:

“At HubSpot, we actually split the teams up. So marketing would sit intermixed with sales, et cetera, become friends with your sales team if you have it, or your engineering team, if you're e-commerce, and become friends with your finance team because while people think HubSpot was lovey, happy, huggy, make loves not spam--and they were--what really made them successful as a company was a really good grasp on the unit economics. You could ask any junior marketing associate, what's our target customer lifetime value to customer acquisition cost ratio? And they would have been able to tell you, and that was really our secret to success at HubSpot.”

Sam also shared advice on getting your business back on track:

“My favorite life advice comes from airline safety videos, which is, secure your own mask before assisting others. It doesn't mean you don't care about the baby in the seat next to you. But if you can't breathe, anybody who relies on you is screwed. So that's the leadership advice. The practical advice is, I hate this new normal phrase that everybody has, but this is an opportunity to reset. Great growth comes from disruptions in normality.” 

All of this and more is discussed in this episode of the B2B Digitized Podcast. To learn more about Sam Mallikarjunan and contact him with any questions about the topics discussed, you can find him on LinkedIn or at OneScreen.ai.

Lightly Edited Transcript

Joshua Feinberg (00:43): Hi, it's Joshua Feinberg from the B2B Digitized Podcast. And I have a very special guest here with me today. I'm welcoming Sam Mallikarjunan, who's the founder and CEO of OneScreen. Sam, thanks so much for joining me. Welcome to the podcast.

Sam Mallikarjunan (00:58): Thanks for having me and for being one of the few podcast hosts who actually say my name right the first time, but you also have a long time practicing.

Joshua Feinberg (01:08): Yeah. I'm trying to think the first time we met may have been at Inbound 2013, which was my first Inbound. I think you were on a panel with some CMS developers. I don't even remember if they were calling it CMS back then, but...

Sam Mallikarjunan (01:23): Maybe, yeah. I had one talk, and then I led some panels. I think I was doing my “How to survive the future” talk back then.

Joshua Feinberg (01:31): That's awesome. So for viewers and listeners, and readers that aren't familiar with your background, could you walk us through how you got to where you are in your current role, what you were doing before that, and some other things that would be especially interesting to people that are on B2B revenue generation?

Sam Mallikarjunan (01:49): Yeah. So the elevator pitch version is, I hosted an AM/FM talk radio show in Tampa about cigars, and then ended up building websites for everybody in the cigar industry, and then had no idea how to help them make money with these sites. So I hopped on Google, found this weird company called HubSpot, built a website called hiremehubspot.com to register for the free webinar on why you should hire me, back in 2011, and got a job there. That was fun. I was there for a long time. I led our e-commerce team and our marketing expansion to Latin America. And then, I was the head of growth at HubSpot Labs. After that, I was the chief revenue officer for flock.com. And then, for the last 14 months, I and a bunch of other former HubSpotters have been getting the band back together to make the physical world inbound.

Joshua Feinberg (02:42): That's so cool. And you've done some teaching along the way, too?

Sam Mallikarjunan (02:47): Yes, I taught advanced digital marketing and innovation management at Harvard University. And then, I also taught at the college I had dropped out of; I was a faculty chair at the University of South Florida, which was a lot of fun.

Joshua Feinberg (02:59): That's cool. Yeah, I remember -- Hire Me HubSpot. That was one of the more innovative recruitment, digital disruption kind of stories at the time, so that was, I guess, an  ABM (account-based marketing) campaign that worked out super well.

Sam Mallikarjunan (03:11): And nobody really called it ABM back then. But I mean, I was a college dropout and the host of a talk radio show. So my chances of getting hired at HubSpot were pretty slim. I wasn't optimistic even with the campaign. And so, the fact that I knew I wasn't going to get the job freed me up to be more innovative. When you know you're going to fail, it really clears your mind to do something that is a little different. And then you don't fail.

Joshua Feinberg (03:38): For my first job in school, I was a student rep for IBM on campus. And they said specifically that applicants must be at least a sophomore. I was a freshman. And they wanted people who were like a technical major. I think it was comp science engineering. I was an econ major, but I applied anyway. They say the answer to every question you don't ask is no.

Sam Mallikarjunan (03:56): Too many people fire themselves from jobs before they even apply to them. It's the hiring manager's job to know if you're a good fit for the role. It's your job to know if the role's a good fit for you. Your job is hard enough. Don't do theirs, too.

Joshua Feinberg (04:07): It's like they say, they want someone with three years of experience doing ten years of marketing.

Sam Mallikarjunan (04:13): Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Joshua Feinberg (04:14): Awesome. So when you think about someone who is just getting started today in B2B marketing and B2B revenue generation. What advice would you offer to someone to set their career up for success? What should they be expecting to think about? What are kind of the potholes in the road that you help them navigate around?

Sam Mallikarjunan (04:35): A couple. One, understand that marketing is a service agency within your business. So we tend to have marketing teams sit together, which is a dumb idea. At HubSpot, we actually split the teams up. So marketing would sit intermixed with sales, et cetera, become friends with your sales team if you have it, or your engineering team, if you're e-commerce, and become friends with your finance team because while people think HubSpot was lovey, happy, huggy, make loves not spam--and they were--what really made them successful as a company was a really good grasp on the unit economics. You could ask any junior marketing associate, what's our target customer lifetime value to customer acquisition cost ratio? And they would have been able to tell you, and that was really our secret to success at HubSpot.

Joshua Feinberg (05:21): Was it having a really tight focus on unit economics, like CAC, LTV, payback, all that stuff?

Sam Mallikarjunan (05:27): And alignment. So I went to the weddings of people on the sales team and not people on the marketing team, not because I didn't like people in the marketing team, but because of the culture that we had. I think this is one of the reasons they were successful, and I've learned so much: create relationships with people outside of your pod. Because, if the marketing team is successful and the sales team is not, you all still get laid off.

Joshua Feinberg (05:52): Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. So you were there around the time when probably the debate going on to freemium or not to freemium, and obviously, HubSpot's been ridiculously successful with product-led growth and is the free CRM product the last five, six years. How did that all play out?

Sam Mallikarjunan (06:10): It was hard. So I'll be honest, and the HubSpot founders would agree, if freemium had been a thing in 2006, HubSpot would have started off with freemium. You get much more rapid adoption. You start at the low end of the market, but disruptive innovation usually starts at the low end and moves up anyways. But it wasn't really a thing when we started. And also, SaaS was so new that you weren't raising these mega-rounds. It was still a new concept to say, you're going to lose money and break even on a customer in the future. To say, like, you're going to lose money on customers and then figure out how to make money on them in the future, is not really something investors back in the mid-two thousands would have been super bullish on, but it was the right thing to do.

Sam Mallikarjunan (06:58): You will cannibalize some of your revenue. You will have some people who downgrade, but you will also have much better success with customer retention long-term. Because the people who start using your product and start paying for it have already been using it to some extent, so they already know it. They're familiar with it. They've seen value. So unless you’re enterprise SaaS, or some kind of specialized thing do freemium, if you're not doing it already, it is very hard to change management, from engineering, economics, sales, and customer success. But if you have the option to have a freemium motion, you should do it.

Joshua Feinberg (07:35): I remember if I think back, probably about ten years or so, it was kind of sort of there, but it didn't get any respect. People didn't take it seriously. It was kind of like looking at the 20-pound bags of cat food 20 years ago, where people were like, yeah, we're going to lose money for a while, and then we'll eventually figure it out on scale, and that led to the whole bubble thing.  I don't know what actually caused the breakthrough, whether it was Dropbox or someone like that, to try to figure out that there was a way to get people to realize the value and trade up over time. But yeah, it's definitely changed the trajectory of SaaS, especially on the SMB side.

Sam Mallikarjunan (08:07): It pays to be an early adopter, like Dropbox, Slack, et cetera. Brex was one of the first startups to use billboards to launch. And now they're a $7 billion company, and every startup in Silicon Valley is buying billboards one-on-one. And it's just a conceptual shift. It's still a lead, right? It's just, instead of a lead that downloads an ebook, learns something, and then you teach them how to use your paid product, it's somebody who downloads your product, starts using, learns how to use your product, and then starts using your paid product. So it was just a conceptual shift, especially for the sales team who's used to going for the close instead of going for coaching.

Joshua Feinberg (08:45): It was interesting, too, looking at it from the partner perspective, or a HubSpot user group perspective, the academy perspective --it seemed at some point a lot of the things that started as intended for customers, suddenly became like wow, we can teach courses for non-customers, and we'll have this great following of people that are certified in all of our social media and email marketing. Oh, great. We're running these user groups already for customers. Why don't we invite non-customers and make the best following? Oh, we have this great conference.

Sam Mallikarjunan (09:10): That's exactly what happened. HubSpot Academy was originally called, One Too Many, and it was just a way to explore how we do customer success training for users when somebody's not paying you enough money to justify having an actual human being do it one-on-one, especially back then. Remember, a lot of this inbound marketing was new. Now it's taught in universities, but I still remember having to convince CEOs that ranking on search engines was a worthwhile business goal. Before, I then taught them how to use SEO software and do blogging and things like that.

Joshua Feinberg (09:44): It's come full circle, now I saw Rand Fishkin was sharing some study a couple of weeks ago, like 60% of searches now end up with no clicks. Or that people are getting exactly what they want from the top of the search engine result page, or from Alexa or Google, or whatever. And they don't click anymore, which completely changes the dynamics of building a whole content engine and building a brand, and building following and reading.

Sam Mallikarjunan (10:15): Yeah. Marketers got addicted to the click. We went from being seen as the team that sits in the corner playing with crayons to having to draw an exact line from every dollar out to like a dollar back in, in revenue. And so we got really obsessed with things that are easy. Somebody does a search, they click on it, they come to your website, they convert, that was something that was really easy to understand, wrap your mind around, and do a budget around.

Sam Mallikarjunan (10:42): But that's not how human beings work, right? You want the answer to a question that educates you, and then you hear a podcast, and that moves you down the funnel. It was always an unnatural behavior to have to ask a question and then click a link, read a bunch of stuff, and then pray that was the right answer. Then at the bottom is a CTA that says, we only give you part of the answer, but if you click this, we'll give you the rest of the answer. That was an unnatural behavior. And so, the world has fixed that, and now we have to adapt to how consumers actually learn.

Joshua Feinberg (11:18): Yeah. I find when I'm talking to companies that are completely new to this, yes, it's important to get them thinking, awareness, consideration, and decision. But as soon as they grasp that, it's important to tell them this isn't someone that's going to do step one, step two, step three, and 90% of people are going to follow that exact path and the same order. And that's going to be it for the touchpoints. It's so all over the place, but you've got to start somewhere.

Sam Mallikarjunan (11:41): The big sin of marketing automation is if somebody abandons their shopping cart or downloads an email, send them an email to do the next step in the buyer's journey. They don't do it... like, come on. That's not how people think, none of us have ever made a decision that way. We've never gone like I'm in awareness. I'm now in consideration, I now have the intent to buy. I have now bought. And so I think that the great thing about the evolution in tech of the last half-decade has been that we have to treat customers as if they're actual people.

Joshua Feinberg (12:17): Very, the models should eventually be able to pick up on that and figure out exactly, and tell us what their journey really was, and predict what a journey is going to be like for a person like that. I don't know if we're five, ten years away in it, but it seems like some of the pieces are getting built with that.

Sam Mallikarjunan (12:33): Yeah. I've spent most of my career trying to get marketers to use more data. Prometheus gave us fire, and then instead of using it to light up the night, we burned down our village by accident. Marketers need to be comfortable with the fact that we're not hard science, but rather we're social science, economics. Data can help us make better decisions, but it's never going to tell us the whole story. And we have to get comfortable with the fact that there's not going to be an answer to a spreadsheet that we can point to and say that this is the right answer for everybody. The data just tells the story of groups of people, not like, here's what your job should be. Because then you don't need marketers, right? Just hire a consultant to design the optimal flow or use some kind of machine learning-based personalization app. And then you wouldn’t need any marketers.

Joshua Feinberg (13:24): Speaking back to marketers. Some great advice to be thinking about, like unit economics, when thinking about planning your marketing team as a service agency internally, what advice would you offer to someone who's like a veteran of inbound marketing, digital marketing, and content marketing, like ten years or more, but they went through a really rough year, and maybe their team has turned over a lot. Maybe their customers turned over a lot, and they're trying to press the reset button and get them back on track. Maybe it's the former, all of them, that you worked with, what would you advise someone in that situation?

Sam Mallikarjunan (13:57): There's the practical advice, and then there's the leadership advice. Everybody needs to remember that if we have a stress-o-meter of zero to ten, normally everybody in the world is at a two. Right now, we're all like at a six. So there are only like four notches able to be used. Fortunately, your competitors are in the same position as well, but nobody in the US needs to be told to work harder right now. The biggest danger is burnout. You become less creative when you're stressed. There's tons of research on that. And you risk people quitting or going to another company. We have to be understanding of the fact that things that didn't use to be our jobs, especially when this was all first starting, having to communicate to younger people on the team, like basic health science, because they didn't know some of that stuff, or having to be a lot more accommodating to people's personal lives.

Sam Mallikarjunan (14:55): My favorite life advice comes from airline safety videos, which is, secure your own mask before assisting others. It doesn't mean you don't care about the baby in the seat next to you. But if you can't breathe, anybody who relies on you is screwed. So that's the leadership advice. The practical advice is, I hate this new normal phrase that everybody has, but this is an opportunity to reset. Great growth comes from disruptions in normality. That's why there was so much of a Cambrian explosion of startups after the great recession in 2008.

Sam Mallikarjunan (15:35): This is an opportunity to try new things. Your competitors are in the same position you are, and your customers are in the same... things have fundamentally changed. And just trying to reset to go back to what you were, like, this isn't a video game where you die, and then you go back to the last safe point, right? This is trying to understand what the new opportunities are, kind of like my hiring to HubSpot thing, right? If you're already screwed, try something new.

Joshua Feinberg (16:03): So how would that be like thinking? Can you walk us through a little bit of what you're doing now with OneScreen, because it seems very apropos? Did the idea for that start before where we are right now, or did it start in the middle of this to envision, as people start going back out, that we wanted people to be looking up at screens, as opposed to looking down at screens?

Sam Mallikarjunan (16:26): That is one of our one-liners. So nice to know that a smart guy like you came up with the same line.

Joshua Feinberg (16:32): I'm sure I saw it on your feed at some point.

Sam Mallikarjunan (16:34): Maybe. So this company was an accident. It started out as a bunch of HubSpotters who wanted to help small businesses survive lockdowns. And the idea was, what if there was a Google display network for screens in the real world? Because there are TVs that run inside like a bar or a restaurant, one, the ads are terrible and untargeted, and two, the business is actually paying for those instead of getting paid, which is how the internet works.

Sam Mallikarjunan (17:01): So we built that prototype, and then we did what we, kind of half-jokingly, called a reverse stealth mode. We called everybody in what's called the out-of-home industry, which consists of what you might think of like billboards and stuff like that. But it's also place-based ads inside of taxis, and bars and restaurants, et cetera, wrapped cars. All of this stuff is out-of-home, and we realized that it was one of the most ridiculously archaic industries that are still functioning.

Sam Mallikarjunan (17:31): So $40 billion a year is spent on out-of-home advertising. And let me ask you this if you wanted to buy every billboard within 50 miles of where you are right now, would you know how?

Joshua Feinberg (17:42): Not even close.

Sam Mallikarjunan (17:43): So you can't, right? Because there's never been a directory of where all the billboards are and who owns them. And it's not like the large companies, top 10 companies, own less than 14% of the available inventory. But they're impactful. They're fun, right? We don't give out awards for AdWords campaigns, but you can have murals on a wall, you can have something like Domino's did with their filling in potholes, being really creative. I was actually joking the other day about a customer's anniversary campaign in their city--I'm like, let's just wrap an ice cream truck in their branding and just have it drive around their city to say thank you.

Sam Mallikarjunan (18:26): And there's a startup that does that. And so our whole thing was, our obsession with analytics as marketers, has kind of, one, made it very competitive. Two, it's made it not fun anymore. Right? We've turned into financial analysts. If I wanted to spend all day looking at spreadsheets, I'd go work for JP Morgan, which, totally fine, legit profession, just not what I want to do.

Sam Mallikarjunan (18:52): And I've had fun in the last year with being able to be creative, but in a way that still has those performance metrics, so I know I'm doing well for the company. But I'm also like, yeah, you can have fun at work again. Marketers, listen, we do good for our businesses. That was the analytics revolution. We do good for our customers; that was the inbound revolution. And I don't have a name for this yet, but the third revolution needs to be like, we should be proud at the end of the day, that we did work that we found fun and that was enjoyable, and that we want to wake up tomorrow and do again --something new and interesting.

Joshua Feinberg (19:27): What's interesting is the first time that I started noticing those TV ads in restaurants, it was probably about five or six years ago, in Palm Beach County, Florida, where I live, (which parts of are like Boca Del Vista on Seinfeld), and there's a very, very heavily concentrated active adult population. I'm pretty sure it was in places like restaurants that were heavily frequented by people my parents' age, with boomers who, pre-pandemic, would eat out nine days a week. They don't believe in cooking anymore when they come and retire.

Joshua Feinberg (19:57): So yes, they had all of these ads, and you're right, they're probably real estates, funeral homes, life insurance, landscaping, cruises, all the things that are top of mind for a senior, and more than likely because they were targeting the campaigns, they were getting it largely right for someone that was purchasing the kinds of things that my parents were purchasing. But when it comes to their kids and the grandkids, it was totally off the mark. Nobody's talking about renting bounce houses or summer camp or Disney cruises.

Sam Mallikarjunan (20:31): Yeah. If you're a beer marketer, you should be able to say, I only want my TV commercials to run in bars. That makes sense. But that doesn't happen, right? Because TV commercials are sold in like DMA areas. It's going to show in nursing homes, as well. And that's just like an aberration, so our whole thesis, after we did our reverse stealth mode and got excited about this, was if we can make the real-world work as efficiently and organize data the same way Google does, et cetera, for the internet, then you can create better experiences for people and better outcomes for the brands.

Joshua Feinberg (21:06): So all of a sudden, it becomes as accountable as buying a search ad or display ad, right?

Sam Mallikarjunan (21:12): Yeah. And it changes the nature of the business with local businesses. They can make money, which is, again, the whole point. Or, like most billboards which are actually owned by small local businesses. Again, they're not owned by large enterprises. It's a common misconception. But my favorite example of this is, we have an advertiser who has a liquor store in Boston. And there are 3% of the people who go to the liquor store and then go to work. Super interested to find out who they are, but in general, don't show people ads to get them to go to the liquor store if you think they're on their way to work unless they have something common with that 3% of people. So relatively basic stuff. But now you've got this, the internet is actually small. It feels big, but it's very small. Right now, I'm looking at the internet, and it's occupying this much of my attention. And then the rest of the world is happening around me. And that's exciting to be able to start creating experiences there.

Joshua Feinberg (22:08): I noticed on your website and on social media that you are doing a lot of awareness and education around QR code marketing. Is that a key piece of the glue that connects all of us together?

Sam Mallikarjunan (22:17): I almost argued against us adding QR codes to the platform at all, but suddenly, somehow, everybody on planet earth had to figure out how to use QR codes. Kind of like everybody had to figure out how to use Zoom. And I'm not sure if QR codes are the long-term answer, but they work now. You want to make the world interactive, right? There's no mouse that I can use to click on things in the real world to influence a digital experience. And it's just the low-hanging fruit, the obvious short term; it's like what the listserv was to email marketing, that is what the QR code is to actually have an interactive, immersive, real-world experience. It's better than what we had previously. I'm not sure it's going to be the solution forever, but it's definitely something you should try; you should use it and see if you can use it in a creative way that, again, conforms to your buyer's journey.

Joshua Feinberg (23:14): I think about QR codes, it's one of those things that, for whatever reason, I haven't left permanently installed on my Android phone over the years. But I find myself from time to time at a stadium, at a museum or something, and there's something cool enough that it's worth going to the play store and spending a minute to download it, to actually be able to get access to that. I wonder if there are a lot more people like that that are casual QR scanners, as opposed to people that have a top of mind that are just constantly like, oh, cool, it's this QR code, let me see what it is.

Sam Mallikarjunan (23:43): I mean, it comes natively in a lot of mobile device cameras nowadays. You just open your camera app, and if you mouse it over a QR code, it'll resolve it into whatever it is. And you can be creative with it, too. You can make it say a phone number. You can make it say text, you can bring it to starting a live chat. It's not just, again, trying to use QR codes as if they were a click on the internet, is not necessarily the right way to do it. So there are a lot more interesting, creative ways that people can use those, in a way that makes them fun to use.

Joshua Feinberg (24:16): Is that one of the bigger mistakes you see people making, as they're not taking the whole user experience into account of what someone's going to see when they get to their site or where they're directing?

Sam Mallikarjunan (24:25): Marketers do this a lot. Remember when everybody used to say social media ads don't work? But it's because they were taking their Google ad-words creative, and putting it on Facebook, and then wondering why an ad that was built for somebody literally in the intent phase of the buyer's journey, wasn't working for somebody who was trying to keep up with their friends and wasn't actively searching for anything.

Sam Mallikarjunan (24:42): Yeah. People try to use new things in ways that are familiar, which is a natural reflex. It's an understandable reflex, but it's also not the right reflex. You should think about what the right way to use this would be. What's the way that people are going to enjoy it the most? That's going to create the most value.

Joshua Feinberg (25:01): I see that even with something as basic as videos; somebody creates a video, they're thinking originally YouTube. So at the end of the YouTube video, they're encouraging people to subscribe to their channel and they go and they take the exact same MP4 and put it on LinkedIn. What channel on LinkedIn? It's not just an aspect ratio or form factor. It's a completely different kind of CTA that you want, in the end, to be more native and slightly more relevant.

Sam Mallikarjunan (25:24): And different types, too. Like you go to YouTube to watch videos. You're not on LinkedIn to watch videos usually. Right? Or Facebook video ads have evolved so much in the last five years. And that's something that good marketers have learned--you need a different creative for a different experiential medium.

Joshua Feinberg (25:44): Coming full circle on all that, where do you think we're headed next? What do you see going on right now what we're going to look back in 18-24 months from now and see that there was just a major inflection point happening with how B2B digital marketing and B2B sales enablement is happening?

Sam Mallikarjunan (26:00): When you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail. And I try to avoid that kind of myopia, but there's a reason I'm doing this. We have all OD'ed on digital over the last year. We don't need to look at our phones anymore. We're caught up on our friends. We're all tired of staring at Zoom videos. For some large e-commerce companies I talked to, it's actually a strategic threat to them, that going to the store is now like an outing, like an event, right? And meanwhile, the good movements in privacy are making things like Facebook ads and Google ads less targeted and therefore more competitive, and less ROI positive. I think we're going to look at this period of time as the point where we broke out of these four walls, and so this is the origin of the name, OneScreen. The only screen that matters is the screen that's useful to your customer.

Sam Mallikarjunan (26:50): And break out of the internet and that sort of myopic view of the world, and start thinking about, how do we create experiences that go beyond just this? Because it's not going to work anymore. Like you said, even with Google ads, people want the answer. And this was a forcing factor to something that was already happening. People want to go outside, they want to look up, and they want to have fun experiences again. And that's not something you're going to do by doing your 5,000th A/B test on your Google ad words creative.

Joshua Feinberg (27:24): It’s all about the experience. That's awesome, tying it back full circle. Sam, what's the best way for someone to reach out to you if they want to connect or have any questions regarding anything you talked about today? You're active on LinkedIn, is that the best channel for you?

Sam Mallikarjunan (27:36): I'm active on LinkedIn and Twitter. The good thing about my last name is, if you Google anything even close to it, you'll find me. So, you can definitely find me that way, or you can go check out OneScreen.ai, just we're an early-stage tech startup, and the website is terrible because I designed it. So we have a new head of marketing who just started, don't blame him for the website. But yeah, you can definitely find me on LinkedIn or Twitter. I love talking to marketers, right? It's how I learn. And I also like sort of sharing whatever insights that I can because the rising tide raises all boats.

Joshua Feinberg (28:09): That's terrific. Thanks, Sam, for joining me today on the podcast. It's been awesome.

Sam Mallikarjunan (28:15): Thanks, Joshua.

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